Houston, TX
2495 posts, Jul 2000

North East U.S.A.
275 posts, Nov 2001

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
260 posts, May 2001

This is the only site I'm having these kinds of problems with.

Houston, TX
2495 posts, Jul 2000

http://www.debunkercentral.com/archive.shtml

I started CTC around 5/8/2000, the purpose was to 'Search for Answers in the Chemtrail Issue'. I researched Chemtrails and contrails. What I think and what I found is quite interesting, but I'm afraid that my position isn't taken by very many Chemtrail activists or by any Chemtrail skeptics.

The part of my position that Chemtrail activists will agree with, but skeptics will disagree with is:

Chemtrails are real.

The part of my position that many Chemtrail activists will disagree with, but skeptics will agree with is:

Contrails can easily last for hours and hours and obscure the sky.

The rest of my position is probably not accepted by many Chemtrail activists, or any skeptics:

Chemtrails are less common than contrails, and many Chemtrail reports (but definately not all) are mistaken reports of actual contrails.

Since this is my position, and in a way I agree with both some of what the Chemtrail activists claim, and some of what the skeptics claim, I feel it is fair and correct that individuals of both points of view are able to participate in our forums.

hitech, you may be interested in reading this thread regarding server problems...
http://www.debunkercentral.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000058.html#17

North East U.S.A.
275 posts, Nov 2001

"Chemtrails are less common than contrails, and many Chemtrail reports (but definately not all) are mistaken reports of actual contrails."

I have to take issue with your thought that more times than not we are seeing contrails. On an active spray day we may have spray planes going over every few minutes. All coming from same direction, north east, heading south west, rarely but occaisionally, south to north, I don't need to describe what is being seen, we've seen thousands of pictures and read multi descriptions. There is no question that a military operation is being conducted around the globe without informing the subjects of this government and possibly others who are footing the bill. They need to make an accounting.

17 posts, Nov 2002

First, it appears as if the trails are either very short or very long. It would seem that in varying conditions of humidity, we would see a continuum of lengths (if it is all the same "stuff", but only the atmospheric conditions vary). Is there a meteorologic threshold which causes this flip from short to long?

Second, what is the stuff that drops down after the long trails are created? There is a feathering down of the stuff -- whatever it is -- and then it is caught by air movement and spreads out. This is the usual, but not only, scenario. Does water vapor split itself and fan out for hours in one kind of trail, but just disappear in the short trail?

Lastly, if the contrails themselves are lingering and spreading for hours, are we/you so certain that they are just water vapor? Isn't it possible, or probable, that whatever has changed in recent years is the nature of the exhaust so that more than water vapor is emitted? If so, then the contrails themselves are a problem.

Said another way, a spreading, dropping and fanning, lingering trail of stuff, by any other name is still a spreading, dropping.....

Trail Nix

earth....for now
184 posts, Jan 2003

Probably.

>>Second, what is the stuff that drops down after the long trails are created? There is a feathering down of the stuff -- whatever it is -- and then it is caught by air movement and spreads out.<<

Generaaly, I have not seen anything feather down. However, depending on conditions, the condensation nuclei could cause heavy enought droplets that may fall and evaporate. Ie. Virga.

>>This is the usual, but not only, scenario. Does water vapor split itself and fan out for hours in one kind of trail, but just disappear in the short trail?<<

I'm not sure what you mean but yes, depending on the conditions (including RH, Wind, Veritical motion,) will dictate how long a contrail may persist.

>>Lastly, if the contrails themselves are lingering and spreading for hours, are we/you so certain that they are just water vapor?<<

I think the evidence I've seen say yes, they are only water. One of the biggest evidences is the presence of halos(and associated effects), irridesice, and coronas. These phenonena were documented before airplanes ever flew. If there are more halos etc. around now becuase of increases in contrails, then that makes we lean toward contrails made of water.

>>Isn't it possible, or probable, that whatever has changed in recent years is the nature of the exhaust so that more than water vapor is emitted? If so, then the contrails themselves are a problem.<<

The case may be that there are more contrails either from an increase in airplanes or the characteristics of the engines/fuels have changed such that it is easier for contrails to form (just a thought). Increased contrails may cause enviromental concerns when you concider an increase to the earth's albedo or even the warming effects that increased clouds have.

Actually "warming" effects are an interesting subject which I would love to discuss if anybody is interested.

>>Said another way, a spreading, dropping and fanning, lingering trail of stuff, by any other name is still a spreading, dropping.....<<

Spreading yes, I really have not seen many (very few in fact) signs of "dropping."

south coast of oregon
2653 posts, Oct 2000

the everything is groovie side
has unlimited tax and print capability

the something has changed side has unlimited
spirate

17 posts, Nov 2002

If there is a meteorologic threshold which defines whether a trail is short or long, I want it explained. There is not a continuum of lengths.

It is not a matter of amount of traffic, again because the change would have been more or less incremental.

Have condensation nuclei changed?

Let us not divert the subject to halos, but keep it to lines. If you would like to discuss warming, I would think a different thread should be started.

Spirit, yes, Mark, thanks.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
260 posts, May 2001

I also am VERY CONCERNED about what amounts to CENSORSHIP on this forum. I'm curious what happened to the debunkster forum that is now mirrored at this site: http://www.orbwar.com/removed-topic-1.htm

I'm also curious if this statement was actually made ostensibly by 'Lulu' aka Terry Reed: "Behavioral data? I'm the only one compiling psychological profiles and ips trace-backs of all the main players.

BTW FK has been officially bart-mooned (:"

Folks this NAZI type statement is worthy of Tom Ridge or Ashcrack and not what should be a free flowing idea forum.

I CERTAINLY don't TRUST this person to be fair in thier decisions of who to 'MONITOR.'

Further, I was called a LIAR in the post that seems to have been moved and this person decides who is allowed to post what?

WHERE DID I LIE TERRY?

Further, there is a complaint that the email address of delicious has been ALTERED from: info@orbwar.com

Are any other profiles being edited by this 'Lulu' who FAVORS debunksters???

earth....for now
184 posts, Jan 2003

Pictures, please.

>>Have condensation nuclei changed?<<

There are lots of different nuclei. I'd say
probably not, however.

>>It is not a matter of amount of traffic, again because the change would have been more or less incremental.<<

Air traffic didn't increase incrementally?

>>If there is a meteorologic threshold which defines whether a trail is short or long, I want it explained. There is not a continuum of lengths.<<

Try these links: http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/Flagstaff/science/contrail.htm

earth....for now
184 posts, Jan 2003

Good factual comeback. You may need to have "hi" removed from hitech so nobody mistakes you for somebody intelligent.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
260 posts, May 2001

earth....for now
184 posts, Jan 2003

right here
1829 posts, Dec 2000

For FKs benefit Larry? FK already knew that he was officially bart-mooned, that happened a while ago on another thread Larry, really you are quite behind the times on the bart-moon thing...perhaps you need to pay attention more? It was taken all in good fun eh FK? in fact I enjoy conversing with FK and he knows it Larry. He at least is able to carry on intelligent conversation, something you are unable to do IMO. BTW Larry I'm sure this went way over your head what FK said to you ~~~

>>Good factual comeback<<

but in light of what I just told you I'm sure you get it now???

As for your other statements about me Larry such as

"I CERTAINLY don't TRUST this person to be fair in thier decisions of who to 'MONITOR.'"

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but doesn't make it any more factual does it Larry?

You lied when you said amoung other things that a few lines was all you got out of me regarding an e-mail I replied to of yours (and keep in mind that I never gave you permission to post a private e-mail of mind here Larry), when in fact you had got much more including legitimate questions regarding your "chemtrails are causing drought" theory, to which you have never satisfactory answered. That you lied and said you never knew Lulu was Terry Reed when in fact if you e-mailed Lulu and get a reply back with Terry Reed as sender, only an idiot wouldn't know the two were the same.

>>You may need to have "hi" removed from hitech so nobody mistakes you for somebody intelligent.<<

You got it right the first time with this factual statement Feelin Kocky !!

Some "test" eh Thermit?

And what the hell does this mean Larry?

>>Further, there is a complaint that the email address of delicious has been ALTERED from: info@orbwar.com

Are any other profiles being edited by this 'Lulu' who FAVORS debunksters???<<

What are you implying by OTHERS, are you saying that I somehow altered Info@orbwar.com e-mail? this is utter bull shit and this statement IMO is TOTAL slander Larry. Grounds for banning. Treading on very thin ice you are Larry, this is your last warning.

>>that you will not use this board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate,<<

1032 posts, Oct 2000

right here
1829 posts, Dec 2000

"your email is being read"

Who is reading his e-mail David? Are you implying that I am somehow breaking into hitech's e-mail? or private messages, or IMs. Total crap if you are.

>>and now an admission of ip trace and profiling.<<

Anyone can do an IP trace with WHOIS, including any of the mods, in fact I have encouraged FLKook to do IP trace backs...it's part of our job if we want to take the time to do it.

I am the only one I know of doing the "profiling" David, psychological profiling of most of the members. Good to know who's who and what's what and just who the fringe players are...and who the trolls and trouble makers are...

And who are the over-the-edge dangerous freaks like GM...

Can never be too careful eh David? And why do I do all this profiling and ip tracebacks? to help Thermit keep CTC running smooth, perhaps that's why he picked me to be moderator here...David.

And what is this suppose to mean???
>>This is how maverick could compare my IP from his site with my IP from this oneit was given to him!
I have complained about this very fact and have been brushed aside, more than once.<<

Are you implying that I gave Mav an IP of yourself? Now why the hell would I do that? And your claim that he and I must be good friends is more utter crap, just because I occasionally post on his board you think this???!!! and WHO brushed your complaints aside? Was it I??!! I have ALWAYS answered your messages.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
260 posts, May 2001

But if you think I'm going to quiver at 'threats' You don't know me too well. Others can see when ideas are being drowned out. If Thermit chooses to abdicate this forum to be CONTROLLED by a debunkster, then it's another sad day for those trying to EXPOSE what's really going on. If not in this venue, we'll find others. I spend time each day trying to SHARE information with others, not SQUELCH it.

As for your 'private' email, I get over 700 daily and it's a fast weed to go through. YOU insisted I had some instant message and implied I did something to not see it. I NEVER DID. I really haven't taken the TIME to learn how to post photos or use other features at this site. I spend hours daily collating newsletters for those interested in what's really happening to this country. There ARE REAL CONSPIRACIES happening and daily.

I post occasional material that I think others with thinking minds would benefit from.

As to answering the drought question to YOUR satisfaction. I won't kid myself there. Anybody can scroll back a few pages on that post and see the futility of my trying ONCE AGAIN to do so.

"There are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see."

235 posts, Jan 2003

quote:

---

But if you think I'm going to quiver at 'threats' You don't know me too well. Others can see when ideas are being drowned out.

---

Seems like Larry considers an opposing idea, a threat. Two or three debunkers on a board full of chemtrail believers (including Lulu) and suddenly, his “ideas are being drowned out”.

Here’s a quote from his drought thread;

quote:

---

“MILITARY!! Debunksters TAKE A HIKE! Quit helping these globalist SCUM murder this planet!”

---

So he wants people that disagree with his lies and the very people out defending his freedom of expression to “take a hike”, yet whines like a stuck pig and cries censorship when anyone dares to even disagree with his views…even a fellow chemtrail believer. I think if you look up the word hypocrite in Merriam Webster’s online, you might see a picture of HITECH Larry.

quote:

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If not in this venue, we'll find others. I spend time each day trying to SHARE information with others, not SQUELCH it.

---

Oh…so anyone who simply offers a counter point or different view from Larry’s is trying to SQUELCH his ideas? Anyone who protests the fact that Larry unethically posts private e-mail information (from what I gather) is now a “debunkster”?

quote:

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I post occasional material that I think others with thinking minds would benefit from.

---

This from a guy who thinks TPTB and “GLOBALISTS” are spraying moisture absorbers in clouds and “molesting” those poor clouds (to use his words) to dry up the atmosphere like a giant tampon. Seems like the only minds (and I use that term loosely) who benefit from Larry’s stuff are the ones that failed critical thinking 101.

quote:

---

"There are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see."

---

To be more accurate as to what Larry means, we should add a little addendum to this statement;

There are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see things Larry's way.

Mt. Vernon, WA, USA
104 posts, Aug 2000

235 posts, Jan 2003

Númenor
35 posts, Feb 2003

quote:

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I am the only one I know of doing the "profiling" David, psychological profiling of most of the members.

---

Ok that statement is just a little on the side of... Bates Motel, really, is what comes to mind. "Norrrrrman is that you?"

Why would anyone want to spend the energy to suss out what makes a bunch of 1's and 0's on a board go tick tick tick? Unless it's for a thesis paper, I can't see what use that sort of unscientific profiling would be, as it would all be based on subjective opinion and most college prof's don't give that much weight.... but, to each his (her?) own, I suppose.
It does smack of creepiness 'tho, honestly.

/waits for the Grand Banishment

quote:

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Good to know who's who and what's what and just who the fringe players are...and who the trolls and trouble makers are...

---

Is that how I go about getting one of those spiffy custom titles? Would explain the lack of a Pay Pal button, anyway.
I figured I just hadn't make friends (or enemies) with the right person yet!

Personally I enjoy this forum, some good old fashioned lively debate without too many personal attacks, and some excellent information turns up here, and I think a majority of it is appreciated by a large audience.

By and large this is one of the friendlier, saner, more intelligent forums I've found.

Meahwhile... If someone wants to profile me, go for it, but I would like a copy of the results when it's done compiling.
We elves don't go in much for that psychology stuff, really. Not so much.

Mt. Vernon, WA, USA
104 posts, Aug 2000

Mt. Vernon, WA, USA
104 posts, Aug 2000

235 posts, Jan 2003